Did you buy the MSX2 English Golvellius from WOOMB?

صفحة 4/7
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بواسطة dvik

Prophet (2200)

صورة dvik

08-11-2006, 10:38

Until then, let's asume the facts: it is a lame Windows game that does not take advantage of PC hardware.
I have to agree. Its a quite crappy Windows game actually. It looks 20 years old or so. If it would have been available on an older system such as MSX (like the original version) I would be quite impressed but as it is I rather spend my money on a more modern looking PC game.

* EDIT * The games are worth paying for especially for those who played the originals and didn't understand the language.

بواسطة Samor

Prophet (2150)

صورة Samor

08-11-2006, 10:50

aha. let me try to understand the logic.

So, as soon as an MSX game is not playable on an MSX, it's not an MSX game, right? I pity all the .TAP images, .DSK images and .ROM files then... well, at least a number of those were later made to work on an MSX again, but not all... many of those turned magically into Windows games. Especially when I use zipped roms, they don't work at all on a real MSX... zipped roms are Windows games!

Think of it, everytime I make an ISO of a PS1 game to use in an emulator, I'm essentially PORTING THE GAME TO WINDOWS! BRILLIANT!

I'll make it worse! BlueMSX is a program that makes Windows games of MSX games. When playing them in BlueMSX, I am no longer playing MSX games, I'm playing Windows games! wow.... and ugly ones at that!

Even stranger, when I use the gamereader on msxplayer, the cartridges I'm using have actually become PC games! What magic this is!

..but wait you say, they can still be played on MSX in that form, so they're MSX games?
ARE THEY? Well, I guess so, but they run under Windows as well now, right? They're not just MSX games anymore. They're also PC games...yup.

...yeah, I exaggerated a bit, but this logic stinks.

بواسطة dvik

Prophet (2200)

صورة dvik

08-11-2006, 10:56

So, as soon as an MSX game is not playable on an MSX, it's not an MSX game, right?
I think this is what some people are trying to say and I somewhat agree. But it really doesn't mean that the games aren't worth buying. I should update my last post on that.
And I definately don't think its justified to 'crack' the WOOMB games to make them playable on a real MSX or on other emus. Hopefully they will be released in another form but that's all up to Bazix. But in the current form you'll get these reactions and its really a matter of definitions. I tend to lean towards the people that don't think its an MSX game. Its really a game taken from the MSX system, modified a bit and made into a PC version.

بواسطة Samor

Prophet (2150)

صورة Samor

08-11-2006, 10:59

but the parts that were modified don't prevent it to run on MSX. it's the encryption done afterwards.. but if I zip a rom I'm essentially doing the same. The only difference is that zipped roms can be unzipped easily, and decrypting is a bit more difficult Wink

بواسطة dvik

Prophet (2200)

صورة dvik

08-11-2006, 11:01

and decrypting is a bit more difficult
...and potentially illegal Wink

بواسطة Samor

Prophet (2150)

صورة Samor

08-11-2006, 11:10

yes (and I think it shouldn't be done), but that doesn't make it a windows game IMO. Wink

I personally think a game is still tied to the original system it appeared on if the code of the game itself remains usable on the original system, not counting "external" changes like encryption or compression or the media format (cart, cd)
That would make MG1 and 2 in MGS3 Subsistence ports, (part of) PS2 games - in their current form it's impossible to technically run them on an MSX, they have internal changes.
However, the various Sega Smash Packs released over the years almost all use pure emulation. In that case I think we're still talking about Megadrive games, and not about ports.

بواسطة wolf_

Ambassador_ (9991)

صورة wolf_

08-11-2006, 11:11

They're not windows games, because they are created as MSX games, and don't aim to follow video/sound possiblities available on PC.. simple as that. They're MSX 'content' running in an emulator. MSX content here means: using Z80 or R800 instructions, using a TMS or VDP videochip, using PSG, SCC, MSX-Audio or MSX-Music. No matter how unplayable things are on a real MSX (in this case only because of a protection mechanism, which is here because people *are* evil enough to put it "online" ) I'd *never* call them Windows games.

I actually don't think ppl care one hoot about the whole matter, the real reasons of this debate are more based on:
- emulator makers feeling left out due the strict usage of MSX-Player
- scene obviously not being able (or willing) to see things through the eyes of a company, a company that works together with other companies in order to do the things they do. It's obvious: first there were companies (80's), then there was scene ('90), and scene defined the way things went, in fact the scene assumed the MSX was theirs! Now there're companies again and they take over the steeringwheel again regarding legal matters and that could mean the scene has to obey to certain rules again (like mentioning the MSXA trademark thing on websites etc. nothing much shocking), and naturally a company can't accept warez, download FTP's etc. So they'll wrap it into a protective shell. Is it all that strange then? It was the choice also made by the companies that offered the games you get @ woomb now. Would one accuse those companies of having made pure Windows games, while you've all been playing the same games for years already? (and prolly illegal)

بواسطة mars2000you

Enlighted (6318)

صورة mars2000you

08-11-2006, 11:28

The scene can also simply ignore the Woomb games, because they can't be runned on a real MSX machine or another MSX emulator than the MSXPLAYer.

Besides, DRM is a very excessive copyprotection tool and a real attack against your legitimate personal rights as honest consumers. See here for more info about this very important matter :

http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/

بواسطة wolf_

Ambassador_ (9991)

صورة wolf_

08-11-2006, 11:32

Ignore yes, exactly what I said on the other page: Like it? Get it. Don't like it? Leave it. But 'the product' won't just be changed because a few ppl think the product is a Windows game, or otherwise 'not good'.

بواسطة Samor

Prophet (2150)

صورة Samor

08-11-2006, 11:33

The scene can also simply ignore the Woomb games, because they can't be runned on a real MSX machine or another MSX emulator than the MSXPLAYer.

Besides, DRM is a very excessive copyprotection tool and a real attack against your legitimate personal rights as honest consumers. See here for more info about this very important matter :

http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/

yeah, just like Windows is evil.

We'd better all use either Linux or a real MSX and listen to 60's music, and stay in the past :)

صفحة 4/7
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