VRoBIT project faces the final stage

Yup. A thousand people is a lot and I doubt they will find them. Right now, they are talking about 1000 registered users and I don't know if they also need 1000 buyers,
At the moment I still have a few doubts:

* It's RISC based emulation, I'd rather see real hardware or FPGA.
* I doubt they will reach the number of needed buyers
* I don't know if I would trust this enough to pre-pay 299 euro's.

Don't get me wrong: It's not that I don't trust the people behind the project, but I'd prefer to pay for something that already exists. I pay, they ship... I really hope that this will be the way it will work and that it won't end up like some crowdfunding project where people loose their money.
As for the emulation/hardware: If this was made with original hardware, I'd buy it in an instant. Right now, I still have my doubts. On the other hand: I do like their design. It gives me a real retro feeling.
If they end up available in their webshop as a stock item, I actually think I'd buy one...

Hello,

I don't understand the video specs. I understand it can emulate the latest VDP but how powerful is it? What are the specs of the hardware's video processor?

From what I understand more or less it is an emulated msx running on a modern HW with 4 msx cartrige slots.
They need 1000 registerd users to start the production, very challenging ...
Good luck!

Mostly the looks and the cartridgeslots. That's it.

Guys, this is the nearest machine to a real new MSX.
possibility to use real disk (with USB disk drive),TAPES, keyboards, cartridges, V9978 and Moonsound emulated...
In addition a bit of "modern times" with HDMI output, WiFi, Bluetooth, New OS, etc..

DAY ONE FOR ME, FOR SURE!

I personally say it's not directly any critic or hesitation, it's more a gut feeling which tells me it's not the right machine for me, in a way it somehow doesn't trigger me, but that's a matter of opinion and taste. Others might think different about it and probably be positive and maybe for them it's the right choice. For myself, I keep using my hooked up NMS8250, since Vrobit did not give me the "buy now"-trigger for now.

I wouldn't want it based on 30 year old hardware, so I'd prefer an FPGA version as well, or at least: I thought so.
In the end, FPGA is emulation as well. Does FPGA emulation have any real benefits over good software emulation? In the end, it is the accuracy that counts...
If the emulation is good enough with the Vrobit, I'll probably end up buying one.

In general, I would be ok with a device with good hardware and/or software emulation, and a combination of classic interfaces (joystick ports, cartridge slots) and modern ones (sd card, hdmi).
I think that'd make a good new MSX; it seems like this project aims to do just that, so that's nice

Have you seen the impressive line-up of software that is going to be available? It's so immense, that I will only believe in this project when it's finished. And as tfh said, whatever kind of emulation, it's only good if it's accurate and I haven't seen that yet.

That said, if they deliver and the computer has a built-in keyboard, I'm going to buy several

Mixed bag of opinions above, let's put my mixed bag to the pile.

The pros:

• If it's going to look like that render, it'll look really nice/retro/classy.
• Quite some horsepower, and if it stays like that there'll finally be a rich standard you (as a developer) can rely on. Considering the 'global standard' the MSX was to be, irony dictates that MSX was too small as a standard and way too varied when expanded. There really was no telling whether, as a developer, you should aim at 64k RAM, 128k, 256k or more. Or, you wouldn't know what the most favourite sound chip would be. Or you wouldn't know whether people have an MSX1, 2, 2+ or tR. Or you wouldn't know whether people had a mass storage device, or advram, or a G9k, or a Moonsound (and oh yes: how much S-RAM again?). So, at least in Europe, MSX2/128K with double sided drive was kind of the bare standard for developers. An FM-PAC was a good secondary guess, but that's about it. So, if this VRoBIT has a rich standard, and stays like that, without being forked into new uniquely expanded configurations, it could become something of a globally accepted platform.

The cons:

• MSX originates from a time when computers, and the way we were using them, were fundamentally different to what things are like today. Back then a computer was a complete product, with its own looks, its own limitations and its own practical development strategies. And this was normal. Other computers from those days also were complete systems. Anno today, our computer systems are neutral. We don't look at computers anymore (it's just a dull block), we look at the screen. And every screen is the same screen. Possibilities are largely virtual. You only need to have a D/A-chip and the software creates the sound (whereas in our past, dedicated chips created the sound). You only need to have true-color video memory and you can output whatever the software creates, whereas in our past: colours, palettes, sprites, tilemodes etc. defined what things would and work look like. The possibilities of today are virtual, and that is so fundamentally different to the old computers. Even more so: we've simply grown used to that new paradigm. That is why a new MSX is compared to an emulator, this also happened during the days of the 1chipMSX. As far as I'm concerned, emulation is the MSX3, with the strange exception that emulator makers aren't making new steps (more colours, more musical channels, more sample memory for things etc.), the only improve the given steps.
  So, back to the paradigm: this actually puts us in a complicated position. If we are to appreciate and use a newly built MSX, we would actually be moving back the computer paradigm in our mindsets, and that likely isn't going to happen. However, if we don't accept a new MSX requiring us to move back our thinking, in the end we can only use emulation of the old MSX'es, and stay where we already are.
• This next bullet isn't really related to VRoBIT, but more to us. I wonder who'd make good use of all the potential horsepower. There are already designers/developers deliberately choosing MSX1 because drawing primitive tiles is faster/easier/funnier. Think about it. There hasn't been any Ultimate Game(tm) using G9k, Moonsound and tR, people are deliberately developing for MSX1, and now the Ultimate Machine(tm) knocks the door? That's like handing out chewing gum to a cannibal living in the Amazon rainforest: "uugh! how can we actually swallow this stuff?" In the worst case scenario, the VRoBIT is merely used to play The Goonies, Metal Gear and Aleste 2. And that would be a shame.
• Aren't the remaining MSXians merely using theirs because it is old and limited, and has these clunky old yet entertaining games? And because they're in this scene, full of weirdos, since they were young? Imagine that silly, ugly old car '2CV'. You can add a hybrid engine to it, comfy chairs, a more modern shape, cruise control, a TFT screen with rear/parking view, power steering and a built-in navigation system. And you can call it a 2CV+... But is it? Or is it simply a completely new car, that old 2CV-fans wouldn't accept as being a 2CV?

Now, keep one thing in mind before throwing your fruitcakes to me: I'm not criticising the machine (which, again, is quite an achievement!), I'm criticising the target audience! Us! Me included! Of course, I'd much prefer to be wrong on this one.

the thing we call "emulator" involves a notoriously malfunctioning directX etc.
"flicker ideas are no good, problem on emulator" - a custom box can go without loosing frames and without a 50/60hz mismatch versus a windows desktop and then it is not just a bit of nice feel but objectively more performance than emu on the gigahertz PC.
and, fpga can have bugs, too. the first thing is what comes out of the black box in a comparison with a discrete MSX.

So far the marketing went bad. for example

I rather advice a video with comparison of vrobit versus the 700 bucks Panasonic TurboR!!!
whoops that somehow sounded more serious, didnt it?

People make msx1 games for the art of it or just for fun.

Exactly, so why would they 'like' a 64 bit system with a 1.2GHz CPU, 1 GB RAM, all the possible audio/video etc.? Especially as only few ever fully invested in content for MSX2+, tR, G9k and Moonsound.

It looks more than an MSX to me than a dull ocm.

That is correct.

Why is it a shame to run just MSX on this?

I was referring to playing games (Goonies etc.). Wouldn't it look somewhat silly to have a new 64 bit Giga-everything MSX with all the audio/video we've ever dreamt of in the 90's, and then end up playing 80's-class games again? For such a new system, what you really want is new development, games, demos, tools that all support the new possibilities. Or else people might as well just use their current MSX, or an emulator - and that would be a shame, in the light of the possibilities of the VRoBIT.

A lot of old hardware will die or will need repair and in time those components are not available anymore in the future.

That is correct.

As is this:

As is 299 euro for a new retrocomputer.

Certainly something I might consider.

Again, I'm not criticising the computer, but more its users, and all this in context of content. But, let's put it like this: if this VRoBIT can manage to trigger developers to release tens, or maybe even hundreds of dedicated and worthy productions a year, then it's all been worthwhile and I'll take back all I've written above. I'd be one to contribute to such productions even. But, and this is why I have my doubts, when the VRoBIT users will be idle (as idle as the scene's been with 2+, G9k, Moonsound), then I fear this machine ends up as a kind of PC running an emulator, with added MSX-compatible connectors. Still a nice machine, let me emphasise that, but still with the power of a hundred horses for people who only want to ride a pony.

If the project is aimed mostly for MSX users, there surely won't be 1000 people among us who are ready to part with 300 euros (and mind the tax and the shipment - this will add another 100 euros to the price!). So having only 4 MSX slots sounds like a bad idea for the device that is capable of emulating most of oldschool platforms - this will limit the amount of potential customers dramatically. Instead, I would desing a device with a universal connector and a set of external adapters for inserting cartridges from those supported platforms. I know that this is challenging, but that would bring much more value for the device.

As I am a fan of real hardware, I won't be ordering this device. However, I will consider buying a universal oldschool platform siimulator as real hardware if the price is right and the set of options is rich. But I would like to see a little more than a rendered image first.

Whoops.... That was twice. It seams the msx.org server has some problems at the moment

I really like the design. It gives me a bit of a modern VG8235 feel. And I prefer it the way it is: with msx slots and the possibility to add other slots as an option.
If I'll buy one, it would be for msx use primarily and then I wouldn't want to have an external thing with extra cables and box for an external cartridge box.
But that also only my opinion

4 slots seems a bit overkill when most of the hardware you would plug in (memory, sound chips, SD interface) is already built in. Just two would suffice. Seems like that would be an easy thing to save some money on, and reduce the size of the casing. Or maybe have two connectors compatible with another supported system, so they don’t need an adapter.

Also, this project is so incredibly ambitious, I just see so much hardware and software features. All of this has to be created, I wonder how many people are working full-time on this? Maybe it would be good to reduce the scope a bit, and focus on the actual near-term features rather than the endless future possibilities. Will give more confidence that this will someday actually be released.

Additionally, with so many features, rather making promotional material, please show off more stuff in videos. Show us the inside, show us stuff being build, show us half-working prototypes, discuss your ideas and challenges, addressing us the audience casually! There must be plenty to show, and it’s ok if it’s not everything that is promised, I think it would generate more enthusiasm and confidence.

Browsing the website again and reading through I cam across this! Since no, it won't be just the 1000 registered users to get a VroBit there's even more:

So above the registrations, another funding method will be started of which no goal is known for now. Since this part about the crowdfunding website was missing in the newspost, I gave you this by comment.

I got this intel ( marked it /w photoshop )

source: https://vrobit.com/en/blog/information-advance-towards-the-f...

Which also puts the project in question:
- I don't trust crowdfunding programs , often they don't reach goal and starter still earned his money and usually disappears ( note: not saying vrobit will do so, to make this clear, but it's a thing to keep in mind though! )
- vrobit has so far not delivered an actual machine image, we've seen only possible 3d models

the computer itself is even at a certain price, so on top of this they have the extra crowdfunding eventually to make even more out of it, I wonder what that goal is going to be. And all this for emulation in a box? This is seriously giving me a lot of doubts about this project.

I trust in the VRobit project, and I trust in the VRobit team!

The 1000 units restriction is due to (list sorted by cost problematic):
- injection molding
- mechanical keyboards
- safe costs in the production of the rest: components, assembling, certificates, packaging, manuals, psu, etc.

With 1000 units we can do all this with a good/reasonable price. That's the main motivation for the 1000 users.

nerlaska, can you tell us a bit more about the V9990 emulation? Are you willing to share the code so we can also use it to improve openMSX?

Can you be a bit more elaborate on "based on" and "has as references'? Do you actually use openMSX and blueMSX code in your project?

I'm very interested in any improvements you may find out! Looking forward to that.

Hello,
This is my question for new VroBIT:

In horizontal row a maximum sprite? How many?
What is the name of the video that supports sprites?

Thank you.

DanySoft

And here is the lastest video published by VRoBIT's team where shows how the VRoBIT computer allows you to upload files in the recent TSX format based on the Spectrum TZX (CDT in Amstrad). As soon as they have the new hardware ready, the idea is to show how it is also loaded from a real cassette since the TSX load system is based on the simulation of the input signal as it does a real device.

If you like the project and want to support its cause, we thank you to go through https://vrobit.com and leave your record. Thank you!

https://youtu.be/JzKHdmIwUj8

Since it is emulating the V9958, I expect the sprites are the same.

Okay, I'm sorry I thought it was a new computer with the new chipvideo.
but I'm afraid the msx3 does not exist!!
Otherwise, we will no longer see infinite sprites in a horizontal row!

v9990 is the only chip-video.

Thank you
DanySoft

Ok, but v9978 is not v9990, as he talked about in posts ...
V9978 is the next of v9958 but without evidence of its existence ...

V9990 is much more important than v9978 !!!

Yes, but unfortunately COPY's speed depends on the cpu.
In this case, in Basic the copy becomes slower to build sprites with COPY.
Msx3 with hardware sprites is the solution. But now there is no more.
Greetings.

The R # 14 register of v9938/v9958 has the other existing bits in addition to three available bits, this should still be another memory .....
But now they are limited to just 128K / 192k vram depending on the computer.

DanySoft

hello,
"msx3 specifications"

vrobit computer

What is happened with vrobit?

Well, their website, vrobit.com, appears to be down for a few week now. How are people to pre-register for this, if their website doesn't work?!

It has been renamed to MSX-VR

http://msxvr.blogspot.com

I guess this project is pretty much dead?